Articles | Volume 17, issue 8
https://doi.org/10.5194/gmd-17-3357-2024
© Author(s) 2024. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
A dynamic approach to three-dimensional radiative transfer in subkilometer-scale numerical weather prediction models: the dynamic TenStream solver v1.0
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- Final revised paper (published on 29 Apr 2024)
- Preprint (discussion started on 13 Oct 2023)
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
| : Report abuse
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-2129', Anonymous Referee #1, 11 Nov 2023
- RC2: 'Reply on RC1', Anonymous Referee #1, 13 Nov 2023
- AC3: 'Reply on RC1', Richard Maier, 19 Jan 2024
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RC3: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-2129', Anonymous Referee #2, 15 Nov 2023
- AC4: 'Reply on RC3', Richard Maier, 19 Jan 2024
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CEC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-2129', Juan Antonio Añel, 19 Nov 2023
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CC2: 'Reply on CEC1', Bernhard Mayer, 06 Dec 2023
- CEC2: 'Reply on CC2', Juan Antonio Añel, 06 Dec 2023
- AC1: 'Reply on CEC1', Richard Maier, 08 Dec 2023
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CC2: 'Reply on CEC1', Bernhard Mayer, 06 Dec 2023
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RC4: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-2129', Anonymous Referee #3, 20 Nov 2023
- AC2: 'Reply on RC4', Richard Maier, 19 Jan 2024
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RC5: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-2129', Anonymous Referee #4, 27 Nov 2023
- AC5: 'Reply on RC5', Richard Maier, 19 Jan 2024
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CC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-2129: some suggestions to share after a group discussion', Chiel van Heerwaarden, 30 Nov 2023
- AC6: 'Reply on CC1', Richard Maier, 19 Jan 2024
Peer review completion
AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
AR by Richard Maier on behalf of the Authors (16 Feb 2024)
Author's response
Author's tracked changes
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ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (19 Feb 2024) by Mohamed Salim
RR by Anonymous Referee #2 (20 Feb 2024)
RR by Peter Ukkonen (01 Mar 2024)
RR by Anonymous Referee #4 (06 Mar 2024)
ED: Publish subject to minor revisions (review by editor) (07 Mar 2024) by Mohamed Salim
AR by Richard Maier on behalf of the Authors (15 Mar 2024)
Author's response
Author's tracked changes
Manuscript
ED: Publish as is (18 Mar 2024) by Mohamed Salim
AR by Richard Maier on behalf of the Authors (18 Mar 2024)
Manuscript
This paper describes a method for 3D radiative transfer that could be computationally affordable enough to be used in high-resolution models. The idea of treating radiation more akin to dynamics is intriguing and as far as I know novel. The results presented are state-of-the-art in terms of speed-accuracy tradeoff (at least for 3D solvers) and potentially very significant for the advancement of NWP models, which are already configured at resolutions where 3D radiative effects are notable yet are currently ignored in all operational models.
My major comments are provided below and relate mainly to the computational aspects, which deserve more attention. Some of my questions may be adequate to address in the review and not in the paper, as it's already long (and concerned mainly with demonstrating the feasibility of the method - which it does excellently!), but a few clarifying sentences and providing absolute runtimes and/or measures of floating point operations in the paper would go a long way in informing the reader how fast dynamic tenStream potentially is, and whether it could be a real contender to operational radiation schemes outside of LES. Besides this, I think the paper would really benefit if the authors tried to make it more concise by avoiding repetition and removing unnecessary words and sentences. The results shown are relevant but they are sometimes described in a very wordy manner. Finally, the code does not seem to be actually available to download at current time which I understand is against GMD policy.
Other major comments:
1a. In general it's a bit difficult to fully understand the method (although Figure 3 does a good job at illustrating it) especially when it comes its implementation in code and its parallelism. The future tense used in L198-204 implies that the parallelism is not yet implemented. My understanding of dynamic TenStream would be something like this for a simplified 1D case:
! Downwelling flux; boundary condition
fd(1) = incsol
fd(2:nlev) = fd_prev_timestep(2:nlev)
! Gauss seidel incomplete solves, not parallelizable
for jiter in 1,niter
! Vectorization or other parallelism, array notation
fd(2:nlev) = T(1:nlev-1)*fd(1:nlev-1)
This would correspond to the radiative flows in individual grid boxes being computed concurrently i.e. in parallel within a single step of Fig 3, is this right?
1B. How should the reader interpret the reported speed numbers in terms of effective speed against operational radiation schemes? Is the 1D delta-Eddington reference based on efficient, vectorized code? It is unclear how efficient dynamic TenStream is or could be compared to widely used two-stream codes such as ecRad, which expresses parallelism across g-points, or the RTE+RRTMGP scheme which vectorizes the column dimension instead. Comparison to other schemes could be greatly facilitated by reporting absolute runtimes, or you could run one of the aforementioned schemes. Potential lack of parallelism and optimization in its current stage can be stressed explicitly and of course, even if dynamic tenStream is currently much slower than operational schemes then it's not a bad result considering full 3D solvers have until now been many orders of magnitudes more expensive. Finally, it could be very useful to report the number of floating point operations (whether absolute or relative to delta-Eddington) but may require a library such as GPTL to estimate, and is perhaps not necessary if the other aspects are clarified.
2. Can you discuss whether you see dynamic TenStream to be a potentially viable scheme for global or regional NWP models as they approach kilometer scale resolution? And on cost again: as these models currently use a very coarse radiation time step compared to the ones reported in the paper, such as 15 minutes (AROME 2.5 km regional model) or 1 hour (IFS, but 9 km so not yet km-scale), does this mean that dynamic TenStream would in fact incur a much bigger cost increase for such models than those given in Table 1, or does the coarser spatial resolution compared to LES mean that dynamic TenStreams convergence would still be adequate with relatively coarse radiation time steps?
Minor comments:
Section 2.1. For the direct radiation, what is the advantage of having 3 streams in the independent x,y,z directions rather than two streams to/from the direction of the sun?
L114: Does TenStreams use of an external linear algebra library mean that its implementation is computationally efficient and exploits parallelism but dynamic TenStream currently does not, if so can the speed-up reported in Table 1 be improved further in the future?
L114: Does PETSc run on GPUs? Do you think GPU acceleration is promising for (dynamic) tenStream?
L272. Has TenStream been evaluated across a wider range of solar zenith angles and is its performance sensitive to it?
L474-495. Interesting, what is the reason for tenStream having a worse surface irradiance bias than delta-Eddington?
L540-544. This is an example of probably unnecessarily detail and wordiness (4 lines of text to introduce a plot similar to one already shown)